Welcome to a new episode of the Opening Bid Unfiltered podcast. I'm Yahoo Finance executive editor, Brian Sazi, and I just wanna pull back the veil a little bit on this podcast taping cause, uh, when you are watching this or listening on it, it is coming uh right in the middle of a New York City slash Long Island tri-state area, massiveSnowstorm, uh, to likes I have not seen since my dad made me shovel 5 times a day from 8 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. when I was in high school. Um, but to that end, I'm lucky Anthony Scaramucci, who's also a Long Islander, is hopping on the podcast.
What did youget paid, Brian, what did you get paid to do that? Do you remember? Uh,
I, it's, oh, true story, Anthony, I was allowed to eat dinner.
That's OK. All right, there
I got dinner. It was tough times in the Sazi household. I got to eat dinner and Iain't get an ass.
I got $10. OK just to show you why Bitcoin is gonna work. I know we're not here to talk about Bitcoin, but, uh, they knock on my door, I, you know, and they say, Hey, we'll shovel the walk and we'll shovel your driveway. I say, how much? They say $300.OK, I got $10 for that. OK, I paid him $300 of course, but just letting you know, we've we've definitely lost some value in the US dollar. OK, but go ahead.
You know, you know, actually, I'm glad you brought that up cause I just talked to my brother, he lives.I'm Patchogue, he offered some teams $250 to shovel his driveway, and they didn't even answer him back. Like, times are changing. I would have taken $250 for the kid to shovel snow. Holy shit,
$300 300 dollars is the number, Brian, you know, that's the facts now. But anyway, I think, uh,
changing. Um, look, there's a lot of, I wanna get to markets, Bitcoin. I wanna do this before, uh, either one of us loses power, but I mean, real quick, like, you're selling the Pokemon card, dude. The
Yeah, listen, I mean, I, I, uh, you know, I'm an investor with him. Obviously, he's got, he's running some of our family's money. He's created a company called Treasure Trove.com, which I'm gonna not steal his thunder, and maybe you can invite him on and let him talk to you about it. But I think the, I think the thing that people need to realize that the, the purchase of a $16.5 million dollar card.Uh, generated about $200 million worth of media buy. And so the, uh, the good news for me is friends like Brian here at Yahoo Finance are talking about it, but it was also talked about on 400 different news agencies all over the algorithms of Instagram and Snapchat.Facebook, etc. And I think what the, one of the approaches that we're trying to take with the card is to help AJ get exposure in the land of collectibles, and to let, let, let people know that he's gonna be a force to be reckoned with, as he begins this sort of treasure hunt that he's on. Uh, and I just will say to you guys that if you believe in currency debasement, which our family does, uh, this is a frontier that has a liquidity mismatch, you know.Bitcoin well exposed, gold well exposed, but the world of collectibles, the prices are going up for a reason. Uh, some of it's related to currency debasement, and we'll be talking a lot about that over the next 6 months.
Yeah, I just had a great chat with uh Josh Luber, the founder of Stock X, and guys on on fire talking about the collectibles business, but, you know, real quick, Anthony, I was thinking too, ahead of this. I, you know, my dad wasn't an investor, you know, he just got up every day and just did something. I don't know what he did essentially every day over a computer or something, never told me much, but what have you told him, your son about investing and like what has he asked you about?
Well, you know, I have taken a, uh, do it-yourself approach with my kids. And so I have opened up accounts for my kids when they were very, very young. And I, when they got to be the age of 10, I said, here's some money. I want you to look at the landscape of the world, and I want you to make some investments, and some bought Disney, some bought Microsoft, uh, some bought, uh, believe it or not, JP Morgan.Uh, you know, my, we're talking about my son AJ. My son AJ bought JP Morgan, uh, back in 2005. I think AJ was all of 13 years old. Uh, he paid $25 for JP Morgan. I think it's about $250 to $260 now. Uh, I thought he was crazy. And of course, we rode it right through the 2008 crisis, uh, because that's what he wanted to do. Uh, and I think there's a big lesson if you take a do it-yourself approach with your kids.They'll learn from their mistakes, they'll learn from their successes. And if I can impart any type of investment knowledge from my 40 years as a professional investor, uh, it would be this, buy quality and stay patient. OK, since we brought up the Pokemon card, I just want to point out, this illustrator card was printed by the Pokemon Corporation in 1998. It's in pristine condition.Uh, it's rated a 10 out of 10 by the grading company PSA. The CEO of PSA said there will never be another illustrator card that's graded PSA 10. Uh, and there's only 39 of them that we know about in existence. And so, uh, this is the top IP franchise in the world. You could take Marvel, DC Comics, Star Wars, Disney, all of Disney.Uh, combine it together, Pokemon has much larger IP, much larger global spread than that. And so, you have a one on one situation, uh, which has dramatically outperformed the S&P 500, that collectible over the last 28 years. So, so to me, if you're buying super high quality stuff,I think it's durable. I think it lasts, you know, someone will push back and say, well, you know, somebody bought an NFT or somebody bought a beatbo at 66 million, it's, it's worthless today, and I, I will accept that, but they don't have a 30-year legacy.IP franchise like Pokemon, and I would just ask people who have younger kids, their kids are buying these cars, and they're ripping packs left and right, and they're doing it on YouTube, and they're doing it in Patchogue, they're doing it in Lynnbrook, they're doing it here in Manasset, and, uh, and so it has a muchUh, longer wingspan, longer legs, if you will. Uh, but I would just tell people, uh, let their kids practice, uh, let them make some mistakes, but ultimately guide them towards buying super high quality and being patient.
If you would have told me that um when I originally met you over probably like over 10 years now, we'd be talking about collectibles in 2026 from our homes during a snowstorm. I'd be like, what the hell are you talking about? Like,
youknow, if you don't mind me, if you don't mind me bringing this up, about 10 years ago I met Ken Golden, of course he's famous now for the Netflix show and famous for golden collectibles, now part of eBay.But the reason I met Ken Golden is, uh, you know, I'm a diehard Mets fan. The Mets, uh, unfortunately put the Mike Piazza jersey up for sale. This is the very famous 9/11 jersey where on September 21, 2001, he hit that home run, which sort of was a metaphor for the city returning and sort of the resilience of the city. Um, and so I bought that jersey at auction with a few of my friends.And we put it at the 9/11 museum. So I, I have a 10-year relationship with Ken Golden, as he pointed out to me, your family buys one significant collectible from me every 10 years. So, hopefully there'll be more of those in the future. But the point I'm making is, there are iconic things, Brian, that I think human beings will always gravitate to. Um, and so collectible is gonna be a part of the investment landscape, I believe, going forward for lots and lots of people.
Yeah, I'm with you. I'm, I'm totally on board with that one. All right, let me switch gears a little bit. Let me get's get back into our, uh, our wheelhouses here a little bit, at least, at least for me, um, markets, I mean, they're also taping this really a couple, couple days after the Supreme Court ruling on tariffs, and, uh, what's your hot take on this?
Well, I mean, it was the correct decision. Obviously, the tariffs are a tax, and uh we split from the uh uh King George the 3rd, no taxation without representation. And so you can't unilaterally tax the American people. Uh, and despite the rhetoric that comes from the president, it's not paid by the countries. Uh, some of the, uh, companies absorb the tariffs temporarily, but they ultimately pass them through to the consumer.Each American got hit between $1300 to $1700 last year in terms of their surcharges related to tariffs. Manufacturing got hurt. It didn't do what the president said it would do, which is create a manufacturing renaissance. If anything, it hurt the trade deficit, hurt our manufacturing, as pointed out by the Wall Street Journal last week.And so, he just unfortunately is, is, uh, is fixated on these things. He has been for 40 years, uh, and his ego is not gonna let him give up, but if his ego did let him give up, it would be better for the economy. He could almost declare victory here, and say, OK, I use this as some muscle and leverage on some different people, the Mexican government, etc.Uh, the refunds are gonna happen, which should be economically stimulating, and would probably benefit his party at the midterms, but he's not gonna do that. And so he's citing something, which is an obscure 1974 law. Uh, there's section 122 of this law that says he's allowed to, for 150 days apply up to a 15% tariff on things.Uh, but even his lawyers in the oral arguments, the Supreme Court said that this wasn't applicable, because there's a balance of payments test in that. I don't want to be obscure with people. Uh, but the president's not giving up, and I think it's a big mistake by him. So, uh, he'll lose that case, probably will get even get a temporary restraining order or an injunction to block those tariffs. Uh, and rather than just declare victory.Uh, he's going to keep pushing this thing for now, and it's, uh, creating market uncertainty, you know, the Dow's, as you and I are talking, the Dow's down almost, uh, almost 2%. It's down 800 points today because, uh, people don't like the potential strike on Iran. They don't like the uncertainty around the tariffs, and a lot of the stuff is unnecessary.
All right, hang with us, uh, Anthony, we're gonna go off for a very short break. We'll be right back here on opening bid unfiltered.All right. Welcome back to Opening bid Unfiltered, having a great chat with uh my bud Anthony Scaramucci. Um, Anthony, we're talking about tariffs before we went to break here. Has the TrumpAgenda loss momentum, and I look at tariffs, I will have the economy cooled in the 4th quarter, and inflation has come down, but maybe not as fast as he would have, uh, the president would have liked. We got the Federal Reserve probably not cutting interest rates. Like what is the state of this Trump economic agenda?
Well, I mean, listen, I, I, there, I, I'm trying to be always objective with the president, OK? I like the Republican economic policies as it relates to regulation, crypto, banking, finance, CFTC, SEC way more than the Democrats, no question about that. But, uh, as a market participant, what are markets like? Markets like evenness, predictability, and stability.And so this sort of on again, off again, knee-jerking with the tariffs, to me is a mistake because it just creates a lot of capital allocation disruption, it creates a lot of uncertainty if you're a CFO or CEO of a company, and then, you know, he's turned off a lot of our allies. You know, when you're telling a NATO nation that you're gonna invade them, potentially take over Greenland.Where you're putting out on true social, the American flag, you're flagging the Canadian provinces, and even suggesting that you, you know, you wouldn't leave an invasion of Canada off the table. And again, that's not me saying it.It's absurd, but he's saying it. Uh, yesterday, he posted an AI video of himself beating up on the Canadian hockey players. Now, his base likes that, it's mocking and ha ha ha ha. But in, in truth be told, it's a turnoff to a lot of people. So, our tourism is way down, our international tourism. The Canadians are not showing up in Florida. Uh, 25% drop in tourism, uh, at the ports, airports, the, uh, cruise ports, etc. in Florida.Uh, and I think it's unnecessary, you know, and you have a lot of boycotts happening now of American products as a result of this behavior. So, so, you know, you know, unfortunately with Donald Trump, you get the whole buffet table, you know, you're, you're in Mar a Lago, Brian, and you can't just get the positive taxation ideas or the positive crypto ideas or the positive banking, or SEC ideas, you have to eat.The tariffs, you have to eat the Greenland invasion, you have to eat the bellicosity of rhetoric towards our allies, you have to eat the uncertainty related to Iran and Ukraine, uh, because of the president. And so all of that, we take it in its totality, I think it's hurting the markets. We could be doing way better.Uh, if we didn't have that sort of rhetoric, we just had the sound policies without the craziness and the capriciousness and the uncertainty. So that's what I think. You think we're headed,
you think we're headed for a big, just hearing you talk and and list these things, these areas of concern, you think we're headed for a, a big repricing moment for markets.
Well, I mean, you know, listen, the MG 7 have held up the S&P. Uh, you've had a repricing moment on about 480 stocks already. Just take a look at where they are, in terms of their 52 week high and lows. Uh, 20 stocks are holding up the market. Uh, you've had a 50% correction in Bitcoin.Uh, and the crypto markets, the all coin market has been devastated. So, uh, and I would say that Bitcoin is a leading indicator. So, you're probably gonna have a roll-off in the stock market. I don't think it's gonna be, uh, overly hellish, because you've got a lot of firepower from the Federal Reserve, you know, and, you know, could you see100 basis points cut from the uh overnight rates by the Fed this year. I still think that that's possible. Uh, even if Worsh doesn't get in, I still think Powell, who's a data-dependent guy, will start cutting rates, particularly if he sees that type of weakness in the overall marketplace. So, so, you know, yeah, I mean, are we due? We certainly do. Would I change my investment thesis because of the short-term stuff that's going on?I would not, and I would encourage people not to, uh, and just stay the course. I do think that, uh, you know, this AI is a phenomenon that is gonna really boost productivity. Um, I just got this book which I'll show if you don't mind, uh, we as Gods. This is, uh, this is from my friend Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler, and this is just a, a book about all the different abundant things that are coming.Uh, in the world of technology, biotechnology, in the world of productivity. So I would just argue if we could stay the course, not blow ourselves up, have some decent, predictable political policies, uh, the economy will recover from whatever we're about to go through, you know, and I, and, uh, but I don't think it's a steep, I don't think it's a steep slump. I think it's gonna be temporary and somewhat mild.
You think Kevin Warsh gets his gig, but his foot chair?
Uh, they're gonna have to drop that criminal case. You know, I don't, I don't think Tillis is, uh, fooling around. Thom Tillis has basically said, hey, uh, he can't advance out of the banking committee without my vote. And so unless you drop the criminal case against Jerome Powell, which is an absurdity, uh, we're not going to do that. And so we'll have to see what happens, um.Uh, maybe there'll be a quiet dropping of that case, and then, uh, Warsh will go off to vote, and he'll get, he'll get approved. Warsh is a very competent, very capable, stable guy, and a safe pair of hands to run the Fed. And, uh, you know, again, you could like or dislike Donald Trump, but prima facie, Warsh deserves to be approved, uh, and I predict that he will.
You and I have talked a lot through the years on on cryptocurrencies and Bitcoin, dabbled in a little bit of it here. What gets us out of this crypto winter?
Uh, well, look, I mean, you know, I, I, I think this is a garden variety crypto winter, uh, based on the 4-year cycle that I've observed from Bitcoin. And so as you get to this point in the halving cycle, uh, the hash rates are down, it's more expensive for the miners, a result of which miners on the margin are shedding Bitcoin, stay in business.Uh, and I think if you just look at the supply demand table, Bitcoin would probably be doing worse, frankly, if it wasn't for the introduction of all these ETFs, some of the institutional demand that's coming into Bitcoin. Um, but this is a normal part of the cycle, and I think Bitcoin starts to recover as we get into the mid-part of the 3rd quarter, possibly the beginning of the 4th quarter. Um, um, and, and that'sTypical and pursuant to the cycle. So, so having said all that, uh, this type of, uh, crash, if you will, this type of market correction, not unpredictable. I said to one of my colleagues when Bitcoin was 125, we'll probably get to 200, but we're gonna touch, uh, 75, uh, before we get to 200. They looked at me like I was crazy, and of course, I, I was wrong, we touched 60. Now, could we go to 50? Sure, uh, it's Bitcoin, so it could do anything, frankly.Uh, but I do feel like that there's some price support and some resistance here in the, uh, low to mid-sixties. Um, and, you know, listen, one thing that I look at is the MNA on strategy. This is Michael Saylor's company. And given the poor price performance, the hash rate, what's going on with the miners, you would think the NNA or something like strategy would be below 1. But the MNA right now, as I'm talking to you today is 1.22. So that augur to me.That there's belief in that company, belief in the long term dynamics of that Bitcoin treasury company, uh, and it also indicates to me that we're probably near or close to a bottom in Bitcoin.
You think his firm.Can navigate this.
I do, I do. I think if you really understand the, yeah, if you, if you really understand the capital structure, you know, he got caught in an interview on CNBC where he said, well, if it goes 8000, I'll refinance everything, and I don't, I don't think he said it as clearly as he usually says it. I'll just say it this way, if I've issued stock to you, Brian, you gave me cash in exchange for that stock, and then I sold, uh, I, and I, I sold the cash for Bitcoin or I bought Bitcoin with the cash.Um, I can hold the Bitcoin. You can sell my stock and my stock can trade at or close to zero, but my treasury will still own the Bitcoin, irrespective of the price. And so, uh, he does have some leverage on the company, but he built himself a 2-year, uh, cash fortress to pay interest, uh, which he actually doesn't need cause he's getting some yield on his Bitcoin now as well. But the point, the point being is he's tried to put himself on a veryDefensive position. Now, you either accept, which I have accepted, that Bitcoin is neutral, it's native to the internet. Uh, if you go on the cloud chat GBT anthropics, uh, uh, AI or you go on a Gemini, and you ask them a deep research serious question, uh, what will happen to Bitcoin in the age of AI, uh, every one of them comes to the same conclusion that we will need a native.Neutral store of value like currency to operate in the future of AI and I think that that's Bitcoin. Uh, I think Bitcoin is, uh, has proven itself and has won the right to, to be that. And so, despite the current uncertainty, 34 years out, I think you're gonna see very high prices of Bitcoin. People are gonna be looking back saying, what the hell was I thinking, uh, back in the mid-60s andAnd just so you know, I'm putting my money where my mouth is. I've been buying Bitcoin here in the mid-sixties.
Uh, let me, uh, let's leave it on this one. Have institutions.Been good for crypto.That involvement
I would say on the margin, they've been good for crypto. I would say that they are not as prevalent, they're not as deep in it as some of the pundits would say on Yahoo Finance, you know, the people that are talking their book related to Bitcoin, uh, want to beat the drum that there's tremendous amounts of institutional demand and so forth. I don't see that, frankly. I see the beginnings of that. I see, you know, a billion dollars of IB purchase, say by, um,Um, the UAE through their sovereign wealth fund Mubatala, I see, uh, lots of players buying into and hedge funds buying into IBT, uh, and the Fidelity ETF, and I see on the margin, we are getting some additional Bitcoin exposure from the institutions, but I don't think you're gonna get the massive wave of institutional exposure until the Clarity Act is passed, because if anything,You will know that the Bitcoiners have won, when you can hold your Bitcoin at Bank of America in custody or at JPMorgan. And you won't get that until the Clarity Act is passed, and gives these people the opportunity to do that. So, so the big institutions are, are gonna wait until US regulators and US legislators weigh in on what they can and cannot do in the marketplace.
We will leave it there, I think. Thanks for always making time for me. I, I, especially during, right, smack in the middle of, uh, I don't know, I, I love you. I wannabe like, I love you. You, you're,
you're on island suffering like me, brother. OK,
staysafe. I appreciate, I appreciate you too, uh, my friend. Uh, that is it for the latest episode of Opening Bit unfiltered. Appreciate all the love. Talk to you soon.